Modern Films? Thanks, But No Thanks

Guest blogger Matthew Coniam writes:

In his essay The Decline and Fall of the Movie, Leslie Halliwell uses the following quote from Jonathan Swift to encapsulate his attitude to the cinema, and in particular to explain how his love of Hollywood's golden age could sit happily alongside an almost total disinterest in and disdain for its present: "I hate and detest that animal called man, although I heartily love John, Peter, Thomas, and so forth." It's an opinion I more or less share. I too have my Peters and Johns - off the top of my head: Jaws, The Fog, Ghost World and The Straight Story would top the list - but the overwhelming majority of post-'60s cinema leaves me cold.

In particular, I have a loathing for the supposedly great works of '70s Hollywood - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, that one in space with the laser swords and the little robots, forget the name of it for a minute - that verges on the certifiable. Even films I saw 10 years ago and liked rarely hold up for me once a little water has flowed between us. Titanic, for instance, I initially had pegged as a glorious, old-style tear-jerker: the petty resentments of stuck-up critics who mocked the script and performances, I confidently predicted, would come to look as transparent and silly as those few who tried to write off Gone With the Wind. I was amazed to watch it again recently and see that they were right: it's a terrible film. Even the effects no longer impress overmuch: what we took to be realistic was in fact merely state of the art, and the trickery already looks almost as distancing, and fully as much a product of its time, as that of a '50s sci-fi movie.

Now, by and large, nobody gets uppity when I say that I hate the taste (and indeed the thought) of mushrooms. But for some reason I've often noticed people getting strangely resentful when I say that I don't watch new movies, listen to modern music or watch any television at all, as if I was expressing a judgement about their taste rather than mine.

Some of the more popular responses:
I'm being pretentious.
I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face.
It's a shame I'm so unyielding, because I don't know what I'm missing.

But what, on the face of it is so strange, or inconsistent, or hard to accept, about liking old movies and disliking new ones? And what is elitist about having, and expressing, a preference? That's the conundrum I intend getting to the bottom of here.

Firstly, though it baffles me personally, there is of course no a priori reason why a person cannot like both classic and modern cinema. The thing that strikes me as odd is the almost automatic supposition that if one likes the former, one would, or should, like both. It's a supposition that rarely works the other way round, I've noticed. I wouldn't expect anyone who rushed out to see Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen ("screenplay by Ehren Kruger, based on Hasbro's Transformers action figures": now there's a credit to fill you with hope for the future of the medium) to enthuse about Monroe Owsley, have strong opinions about whether Charley Chase is better in silents or talkies, or feverishly collect Irene Ware films. Yet when I, to whom all of the above applies, say that I'd rather spend a week underground with a mobile phone salesman than another minute looking at Will Ferrell's face... suddenly I'm the one with the big attitude.

I have known people laugh when I say I regularly watch black-and-white films, as if I'd said I liked reading Beowulf by candlelight in a Hebridean cave. Black and white! The idea! I've met people who thought I was joking when I said I liked silent films. (Often old people, dismayingly enough.) Well, choosing to spend 90 minutes in the company of Tom Cruise, or Lars von Trier or Ken Loach or Wes Anderson, strikes me as pretty wacko, too.

But the much more important point is this: Of course there are some modern films that I have enjoyed, especially from non-English-speaking Europe, where - for the moment at least - both depth and style remain fashionable, but even these do not strike me as examples of the same thing as the classic movies with which I am obsessed. I mean, what do they really have in common? Just this (and, increasingly, not even this): they are both forms of visual representation created by passing a beam of light through a strip of celluloid on which photographic impressions of human activity have been recorded.

That's it, ladies and gentlemen. That's the common factor. That's the obvious and vital link that makes Mr Deeds Goes to Town an example of the same thing as Being John Malkovich, and makes me a crank or curmudgeon for loving the one like a firstborn child and hating the other with the kind of passion I ordinarily reserve for religious fanatics and salad. How dare I? Yet as I understand it, if you love old Hollywood--not just the list of approved masterpieces but the whole world and scent and flavour of old Hollywood, then you are in love with something that simply does not exist anymore, regardless of how good the occasional half-watchable film may still be on its own terms. Classic Hollywood cinema is - and I mean this not as a judgement but as a simple statement of fact - a unique phenomenon, product of a unique set of circumstances and individuals, operating in a unique way at a unique point in time. The studio system, long gone, produced a body of work that is to cinema generally what an illuminated medieval manuscript is to books generally. Shot almost entirely in studios, by contract artists, operating under an imposed censorship system, so that each studio had its own instantly recognisable atmosphere, regular stable of players, and totally artificial style.

This is what I love.

When that changed, as first the studio system and then the Hays Code collapsed, a clear before-and-after line can be drawn in the product. The stars migrate from studio to studio, individual studio styles disappear, real locations, widescreens and other forms of pseudo-realism replace the artistic creations of the old studio photographers and set designers with drab singularity, and uniformity of manner and message gives way to a thousand discordant voices all vying to see who can shout loudest for your dollar. These things, that make the earlier films so fundamentally different from what followed, are the specific things that attract me to them. I have no passion for modern cinema. Even among the films I admired, hardly any have added something to my life, or given me any strong desire to see them again. Whereas if you told me I had just watched The Old Dark House for the last time I'd cry and fall over. Films are an interest, old Hollywood is a passion.

Now, this all seems so straightforward to me that I wonder if the problem isn't somewhere in the very terminology we use. 'Classic' is a slippery term. On the one hand it can be used as a judgement - to be deemed a classic is a marker of quality - on the other it is used as a description, to mean films of a certain age. (Leonard Maltin's Classic Movie Guide covers all films pre-1960.) For most people I think it means a combination of the two - a retrospective bestowing of approval on a film that has been around long enough to have stood the test of time, hence the tentative use of phrases like 'modern classic' or 'future classic' to refer to Fargo or American Beauty or Christ knows what other ordure happens to be flavour of the month this month. I'd like to see these two meanings divorced, so that we can talk about classical and modern cinema just as we talk of classical and modern music. Yes, everyone knows classical music is better than modern music, especially those who claim otherwise, but that's not what the term means. It refers to a style only, and any related associations of higher quality spring incidentally from the terms of the drawn distinction itself. So how about continuing to use 'classic' as a qualitative term to recognise individual quality, but 'classical' as a quantitative term to define that whole world, and way of doing things, that existed between the creation of American cinema and the collapse of the original structures and strictures, somewhere in the fifties.

One final point. I do realise I have spoken only about old and new mainstream Hollywood. Many have written that yes, American pop cinema is a parched field of rotting weeds, but salvation is at hand in the great third way: avant-garde, art and independent cinema. Personally, I find even less here to attract me than in the average Hollywood blockbuster. If classical Hollywood is Mozart - or at least Puccini - and modern Hollywood is Justin Timberlake, then this lot is Stockhausen. (I even saw Peter Greenaway's name come up - a sobering reminder that there are indeed corners of the world where this pompous buffoon retains the respect long withdrawn by those of us who have to share a country with him.) I really don't mind whether I see Marley and Me again or not, but if you wanted me to sit through Broken Flowers a second time you'd have to nail me down. More genuine creativity, inspiration, effort and love of cinema went into Police Academy 6 than Being John Malkovich.

For more of Matthew's views on film, visit Movietone News.

 
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  • Jacqueline T Lynch

    An excellent essay. I'm in your camp. I rarely watch new films for lack of interest. I want to like newer films because the actors today are terrific and the technical possibilities are astounding -- but beyond a few exceptions (which mostly seem to be "period" pieces like "Quiz Show", or "The Remains of the Day" or various Jane Austen treatments), I find the main problem I have connecting with modern films is I just don't care about the characters. They are usually self involved and shallow, and bear none of the sympathetic humanity of characters we see in the Golden Age of film. Storytelling is often weak. I am not against my own era, but I despair that this is how it is being preserved on film.

  • Dr. Mirakle

    I get that quizzical look that says,"What the #%&# is wrong with him?" every time I try to introduce someone to a black and gorgeous white film. But this is nothing compared to what I get when I mention "Greed" or "the unknown".
    I sometimes think that all is lost. By the way whatever happened to editing ones self before letting those 20 minutes or so remain in the final cut?

  • Tito Pannaggi

    The good old films were FILMS, nowadays it is "media". Too much technique - too little story.
    All they want is make the audience have an instant entertainment, I love films that make me think about for a while, even after I am home. As Claude Chabrol once said: "If it can be told silent and in black-white it is not film". Modern films from the big production companies are the ones who is ruin the film athmosphere. Some of the indie films are as good as the films should be.

  • Tito Pannaggi

    Sorry som uf the text fell out:
    The good old films were FILMS, nowadays it is "media". Too much technique - too little story and too much things going around the film. All they want is make the audience have an instant entertainment, I love films that make me think about for a while, even after I am home. As Claude Chabrol once said: "If it cannot be told silent and in black-white it is not film". Modern films from the big production companies are the ones who is ruin the film athmosphere. Some of the indie films are as good as the films should be.

  • james

    I agree with most of what you say, but I try to look at the entertainment value more. Film makers seem to think they have to keep us on the edge of our seats, that we are too dumb to understand a good story or complicated plot. So they use foul language and shallow stories and tons of special effects to wow us.Unfortunatly thats it one shot and done I have seen it and I don't desire to see it again. Case in point I could hardly wait for the remake to come out of The Day The Earth Stood Still, can you imagine what they could do with the robot Gort now, with CGI and all the magic.Will, you know the disappointment. So actually most movies don't wow us much. A few of my old black and white favorites are The Mark of Zorro, The Adventures of Robin Hood, To Kill A Mocking Bird, The Best Years of Our Lives, Ride The High Country, Shane, all the block busters, o'yes The War of The Worlds, and The Day The Earth Stood Still, CLASSICS all.

  • wayne

    I totally agree with the author of this blog and a lot of the comments, and for all the reasons given.

    But it should also be noted that art made just for arts sake doesnt necessarily make it good art. Whether the medium used is film, music, painting, photography, sculpture and/or theatre. Plus, lets not forget all the ways the printed word can be distilled from poetry to novels and the like and even...yes, the blog!

    Granted, there were plenty of "stinkers" made in the so-called Golden Age, just like there are now. However, I daresay a B or perhaps even a C movie back between the silent era and the 60's can compare favorably to a mainstream Hollywood flim/movie release today. And, theres a lot to be said for indie and foreign films or even Bollywood offerings, that perhaps qualify them to best a conglomerated, corporate-owned or independent screen project today!

    The main point, in my view, is that the best of those old movies were stories, with plots and actual characters. Actors playing a part; be it method-acting or repertoire, who gave meaning to the work being conveyed...and, last but certainly not least, it left you thinking a while afterwards about its effect on your life. It wasnt just mindless entertainment with sex, violence and special-effects thrown in for good measure.

    Now, thats my defintion of a classic era...the Golden Age of Hollywood films when movies were made by artists up and down the cast/crew/production lot and preserved for all to see for years to come. We should thank God for their efforts as, after all, we dont have recordings of the classical composers; their art form has to be re-produced, albeit quite well today.

    By way of example, the great movie makers of the Golden Age left us a high standard of excellence to shoot for so why should artists in that industry today not try their best to emulate it?

  • kent gravett

    Great piece and sadly true. I was brought to this when I had to list favorite films on a Facebook profile. I couldn't think of current or "modern" films t list other than foreign ones mosty in B & W. I kept thinking about works like "The Life of Emil Zola" (great in so many ways) or the best example of completely professional work as the greatest to come out of that system: "The Best Years of Our lives". I finally found two. "Lone Star" and Eastwood's 'Gran Torino" that had something to say and mawked what was happening in Film. By the way, "The Adventures of Robin Hood" and "Ride the High Country" were in color. Glorious color at that.

  • Joan Henn

    I like old movies but am not as particular as the
    writer, I'm afraid. As for Gone With the Wind, it
    is the actors who appeal to me. They are long gone, but one in particular didn't seem to do his part,
    justice. It was Leslie Howard! His portrayal wasn't
    very good. In fact, I think he overdid the sappy
    part of the man he was supposed to portray. I noticed that when I first saw the film and recently
    when I saw it again. Maybe it was I who was in the
    wrong, who knows?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000742235158 Jeanette Noclain

    I Certaintly Give You The Right To Express Your Opinion, But To Be A Overblown Individual And Not Given The Movies Of Today Any Respect At All Is Just Plain Stupid And Ignorant. Times Change And So Does Everything Around Us, Including The Way Movies Are Made And Shown. I For One Can Sit Back And Watch A 1920's Silent Film And Turn Around And Watch The Latest Comic Book Hero Being blown Off The Screen And Enjoying It!

  • Blair Kramer.

    There are good and bad films from evey time and era. There are also great performers from every time and era. You are limiting yourself when you make a blanket decision about anything under the Sun. I too love the great old films. But I also enjoy many modern films. You may well have forgotten the fact that 90% of ANYTHING is forgettable. We just don't see the unworthy stuff from years gone by because it was all discarded long ago. Today, it's up to us to find what's good. But as always, 90% of it is forgettable. Be that as it may, I wouldn't want to miss "The King's Speech," "The Proposal," or even "Captain America, The first Avenger" (among others). To my mind, they were all good films. And I have no doubt there are many more genuinely good films to come (although, unlike yourself, I can do without the pretense of European films). But c'mon... After all is said and done, aren't you at least a fan of "Raiders Of The Lost Ark?"

  • Matthew Coniam

    Hmmm. One at a time, I think.
    Jeanette Noclain's weird, capital-letter strewn response is a classic case of the very mind-set I was identifying, that merely repeats, rather than addresses, the illogical sentiments I was drawing attention to.
    First, there is the accusation of being overblown, just plain stupid and ignorant, with no attempt whatever made to explain what it is is about having and expressing an opinion that warrants such a description, unless she thinks I failed to justify my opinion, in which case the whole essay failed in its aims. But she doesn't, because she agrees with me, writing (and I've toned down the bizarre presentation): "Times change and so does everything around us, including the way movies are made and shown."
    Er, yes, that was my point actually. Some only like the new way. You say you like both. I like the old. Why is the latter opinion, and the latter opinion alone among three alternatives, overblown, ignorant and just plain stupid.
    That's what I was asking, and you haven't answered my question.
    But my point was that one need not hate modern films as much as me for it to be perfectly reasonable to have no interest in them. I was trying to show that old films and modern films are not two different types of the same thing - except in the most superficial sense imaginable - but rather two entirely different things. One can like both, or one, or the other. What I find heard is the assumption, so often expressed as aggressively as here, that if one likes old films one must like new. As well as never justified by those expressing, I've found this view very rarely held in reverse, and most consumers of new cinema are happy to mock and deried what little they have experienced of the old.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Sorry for the appalling errors in the last comment: I'll check this one more carefully before submitting it...

    Blair Kramer makes rather more sense, and instantly scores points by being well-mannered, but unfortunately just repeats the other assumption I was trying to analyse.
    Alongside the bolshie who takes weird offence and starts flinging the invective about is the other, well-meaning and concerned, who worries that I am cutting off my nose to spite my face, and making a blanket judgement that results in my missing out on the rare treats of modern filmgoing.
    But again, if I said I had no interest in films at all, you'd say fair enough, just as when I say I have no interest in cars, or mountain climbing, or funfairs. You wouldn't say that my blanket dislike of funfairs robbed me of the delights of the big wheel - you'd just think I didn't like funfairs.
    In fact, I began by saying I have enjoyed many modern films, and gave what I hoped was a thoroughly random and eclectic sampling of same. But I enjoy them in a different way, and use them in a different way, to old films because they seem to me fundamentally different. I don't feel the need to rewatch them, and wallow in them, as I do the older sort, because they don't appeal to me in the same way.
    So here again, the assumption I have been dissecting is merely repeated, not reinforced.
    As to the specific question, Raiders of the Lost Ark seems to me the perfect example of what I'm talking about. I loved it when it came out (when I was 9) and watched it again recently fully expecting to find it entertaining. But it's a terrible film! It attempts to replicate what in the thirties was done so easily and with so little aspiration beyond the immediate enjoyment of a pretty undemanding clientele, and every frame is weighed down with lead-ballonn self-importance. I honestly thought it was appalling. I also thought The King's Speech was pretty average. I haven't seen the other ones you mention.
    Also, I haven't forgotten that 90% of anything is forgettable, I just don't agree. I love the standout classics of thirties cinema, but I also love the cheap, throwaway, forgotten stuff too. I make it my business to track it down and have never been disappointed. I think I can honestly say I have never watched a 1930s film and not enjoyed it - and I've seen hundreds. This is, of course, personal taste: I couldn't justify my love of half of them objectively. But that's the point.
    Why are some opinions okay and some not? I still await an answer...

  • masterofoneinchpunch

    Why are some opinions okay and some not?

    If an opinion is backed by sagacious analytical comments and relevant facts it certainly is of a higher quality than superlative one-word statements. I feel this is why many of us writers on film tend to take the opinions of professional film critics and film professors’ higher than say a one-paragraph review on IMDB (not saying there are not gems of writing there nor to say we should take published pieces without serious analysis).

    I certainly dislike when reviewers or in conversation when those eschew silent, black-and-white, subtitled, foreign films because they are unnecessarily cutting themselves off from art as well as entertainment. But I also feel the same toward newer cinema as well. Here is an aptly quote from critic Jonathan Rosenbaum on Nick James:

    “This makes me wonder how a contemporary critic as sophisticated as Nick James can still make claims such as the following (in the Spring 2009 Film Quarterly): “The wonderful golden run of great international cinema in the 1990s that brought us the best of Edward Yang, Wong Kar-wai, Takeshi Kitano, and Abbas Kiarostami, among many others, petered out several years ago.” But if we were already oblivious to so much important stuff being made in the ‘30s, ‘40s, ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, what gives Nick such confidence that we can be on top of these things today, when the task of following everything that’s going on is arguably even more impossible than it was then? Does he really think that critics are so prescient that they no longer need to worry about missing any of the important films being made—which, thanks to the uniform brilliance and prescience (and, presumably, the absolute reach) of festival programmers and distributors, are readily apparent? And if not, what kind of sense are we supposed to make of his statement?”

    Of course this is my opinion as well and I certainly respect yours even though I disagree with it with modern films. But I love older films (I also have seen hundreds of 1930s films as well as hundreds of 1920s films) so if I was to get into future conversations with you I certainly would concentrate on those areas. Plus any mention of Charley Chase is an article is a plus.

    I think when we study and learn more about a particular era or type of cinema (like with you in 1930s cinema; like myself in Hong Kong cinema) we find more to appreciate because we know more about the director/actors/time period etc… -- though we might also appreciate a style more than another as well.

    There continues to be sublime cinema, but how to convince you of it is the rub :) .

  • Matthew Coniam

    I would certainly be receptive to the idea that a quality cinema may be found in Hong Kong, though equally sure it is not for me personally.
    My real beef is with Hollywood, and its rancorous immaturity, pretentiousness, sentimentality and crass hatred for the standards of its past.

  • Blair Kramer.

    OK, I get it now. It's the changing of the times. It's the simple fact that modern films are MODERN FILMS. And you just don't like the look of NOW compared to the look of THEN. Of course, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't much of an actor. But then, neither was Errol Flynn. In other words: surely you don't believe the movie makers of the 30's and 40's somehow had a stronger grasp on film making than the best movie people of today, do you? That certainly can't be true. Finally, I strongly disagree with you regarding your opinion of "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." It's a film that very definitely has stood the test of time. It's not just very well made. It's still tremendously entertaining. And after all is said and done, despite the intellectual pretensions of countless movies, entertaining is all any film ever really needs to be.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Nope, you're still making comparisons on the assumption of fundamental similarity. That's why I proposed the introduction of 'classical' as a divisive terminology, as in music.
    Nobody would expect a Shakespeare scholar to appreciate the latest chick-lit bestseller, or think them irrational for not doing so.
    Celluloid is not sufficient as a common denominator!
    I don't know what you mean by "a stronger grasp on film-making". All I know is that the kind of talent I look for - in story-telling precision, concision, inclusivity and humility - has no place in the modern industrial context of mass-market cinema.
    And Raiders of the Lost Ark, whatever you think of it, is pastiche. In the thirties they did the same thing for real. My more substantial gripe with it is that it is gratuitously cynical, mean-spirited and sadistic... the essence of modern popular cinema, in other words.
    Yes, of course entertaining is all a film needs to be, so long as that is its aim. But beware: 'entertainment' is not a value-neutral commodity. The Roman arena was entertaining, otherwise it would have closed.

  • Fred Smith

    "Art" or "entertainment" is all a matter of personal preference in my opinion so your point of view is just as valid as any other. Just enjoy what you like and don't worry about other people's criticizm.

  • Blair Kramer.

    I just want to make one last point and then I'll bolt... The Roman Arena offered genuine murder as entertainment. Our current sensibilities could never accept such blatant barbarity. However, modern novels, films, television shows, and stage plays, do nothing of the sort. It goes without saying that "death" in make-believe isn't ACTUAL death. As such, our emotional response to a make-believe murder is blase'. And why shouldn't we be blase' about it? We know full well that it's make-believe. We know it isn't real. I have always enjoyed a good TV murder mystery. I don't take it seriously. And it doesn't bother me emotionally. Why should it? After all, I know it's nothing but fiction. It isn't real. Therefore, I enjoy the mystery and go with the flow. Isn't that what it's all about?

  • Matthew Coniam

    Well, we've wandered quite substantially from the content of the piece, which was about the aesthetic and professional merits of modern films and not really about the social value of their content at all, but briefly: you don't need me to tell you the world of difference that separates "a good TV murder mystery" from Hostel. Not just in terms of the explicitness with which murders are depicted but also in the pleasure they expect the audience to take in them.
    You can, of course, argue that these distinctions are cosmetic and essentially hypocritical (as is occasionally argued in pretentious films, such as Funny Games, so bad they made it twice), but only with logical rigour if you are proposing the condemnation of the TV murder mystery equivalent to Hostel, not the exoneration of Hostel equivalent to the TV murder mystery. My feeling is that context really is of the essence, same as most people.
    To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever argued that the danger with graphic or sadistic violence in films is that somebody might think it is real. This is one of several persistent straw men in this unending row between the forces of sobriety and incontinence. (Another is the allegation by libertines that pro-censorship advocates think ordinary law-abiding people can be turned overnight into rampaging killers after one viewing of [insert title of whatever indefensible rubbish they are defending this week]. These things are never said, but attacked as though they were, because the actual points being made are so transparently and inarguably true.)
    As for the Arena you yourself point to the quicksand beneath your argument when you refer to "our current sensibilities". You only have to look at any cultural product as recent as say, 1965, to see how quickly sensibilities can alter, and how consistently they have altered in one direction.
    The Roman Arena did not offer genuine murder from day one. It got there in stages. Any one of us can imagine the reaction if we travelled in time to visit some of the audiences who fainted with fear at King Kong, and showed them Hostel, and assured them it was a perfectly legal piece of mainstream entertainment, that they could go to see in the same cinema they've just exited, in 75 years time.
    They would think the world is about to end.
    That's the thing with those stages, that took a Roman circus and turned it into a celebration of rape and murder. If they're slow enough and small enough they'll pass beneath a lot of radars, and there will always be voices of noisy, phony reassurance saying it isn't so.

    But as I say, this is a different issue entirely from what I was discussing in the piece.

  • Tracey

    I so agree with Matthew. Love the old movies and dislike most movies made after 1960. I haven't been to a movie theater in over 25 years. I seem to me in a minority in that I can't stand anything by Woody Allen and I dislike Planet of the Apes (first version and I won't watch the new release). Only current movies that I like (which I really don't understand) are the Harry Potter movies. My favorites - anything with Jimmy Stewart, Katharine Hepburn, Greer Garson, Margaret O'Brien, John Wayne (not the late stuff), Spencer Tracy, Maureen O'Hara, Gary Cooper, Ginger Rogers, Jean Arthur, and all of the other great actors from the 1930's-1960. I don't really like silent films, dark films or foreign films either.

  • jim

    As Duke Ellington once said, there are only two kinds of music: good and bad. It seems to me that what we're discussing here is not whether classic films are better than contemporary ones; but rather, whether society, and popular tastes, are in a state of terminal vulgarity. And the preponderance of evidence leans strongly in that direction. As long as mass cultural tastes are so moronic, there is very little chance that the quality of the movies marketed to appeal to them will improve. C'est la vie.

  • Janet

    One of the problems today is that film makers are producing films for people with no passion for films. The true movie lovers in the world are usually left spinning in the wind so we have to guard our precious classic movies and those very few great films that are usually foreign.

    The one thing that tears me up are remakes (poor remakes at that) of our beloved classics. Remake of "The Women!?!?" Unspeakable. At one point they studios were talking about a remake of "Gone With the Wind." UNBELIEVABLE!

    Although I enjoy what technology has to offer technology has taken away the one important thing in our lives. Humanity. The lack of human interaction has desensitized the new generations. They will never know the thrill of seeing a movie and rushing to Tower Records or if you are old enough to remember, Wallach's Music City to purchase the soundtrack so that you could relive the experience or daydream about the leading man or woman in the film.

    I have managed to replace many of my classic movies. Until I do I will keep my VHS and Laserdisc player. :-)

  • John Stanaway

    I agree in principle, but defer in the particular.
    Perhaps I am in the minority to maintain less than reverent feelings for GONE WITH THE WIND, but suggest trying to sit through the film without the distraction of vivid color or sweeping musical themes. If it were not for the acting talent of Gable,Leigh, Howard, Mitchell, de Havilland and the rest, I believe the movie would have fallen into the mist of forgetfullness. (Imagine Ronald McDonald Reagan as what's-his-name or the redoubtable Lucille Ball as the invisible Scarlett O'Neill). Otherwise I agree with the assessments other than THE FOG? You aren't talking about that original grotesque waste of film by the overrated John Carpenter, are you?

  • CheriLynn

    I recall a David Frost interview with Bette Davis when he asked her to compare films from her day to those of the present. Actors, she replied, performed with what could possibly be referred to as overacting these days. She said that people went to movies to be lost in the story, to be caught up in the drama. Films made today emphasize what she called, "real life." She said people were living real life and wanted, needed drama to escape. (I'm paraphrasing of course.)

    Laurence Olivier once said to Dustin Hoffman, after he'd spent time staying up all night to get "into character," asked why he would do such a silly thing. Why didn't he just ACT.

    That said, what drama the older actors brought to film was added to with marvelous scripts, a director that knew how to build emotion into a scene, and some of the best musical scoring ever. Today, films use pop songs to help us understand the underlying emotions of the actor, camera tricks, and computer wizardry.

    I do enjoy some movies made today, but not in the same vein as my favorite Bette Davis film, or Bogie film that transported me to that wonderful place that made me forget my own real life. Maybe, once in a while (and I'm being generous) I may discover a small film that is actually memorable and may help me find that place that Bette Davis and Bogie would take me to with such regularity, but in the past five years I haven't found a single film that transported me. I've even given up on romantic comedies. They are neither comedies or well made or romantic. I would rather watch Arsenic and Old Lace over and over again if it was the only comedy I could ever own before purchasing anything made beyond the early sixties.

    Pornography, smutty humor, and camera tricks do not make a poor script or a mediocre actor better. Comparing Transformers to The Ten Commandments is not only silly, but futile. The argument fails to understand the underlying reason why the older films were not only better at entertaining us, but have remained in our subconscious longer than the newer more trendy action/adventure movies. Even if we bring it down to something less computer animated like dancing, how can you compare The Red Shoes with Turning Point or Fame? And I absolutely adored Mischa's dancing on stage. He was unforgettable up there on the boards, but the film was horrible, evoking more disgust in me than reveling in the beauty of ballet. The film degenerated into a sexual romp punctuated with moments of dancing.

    I do agree that comparisons are impossible. Something did change in the film industry and I believe you have something there in your argument about the disparate voices becoming desperate to be heard or grasping for the viewer dollar. Maybe it was the Hays law abandoned, or the collapse of the studio system. Or maybe it was exactly what Olivier and Davis both knew: Acting was different in those days. They were more concerned with the viewer feeling something than the actor.

    Just ignore those who roll their eyes when you postulate your belief, or those whose sarcasm and meaness roll out like poison from their filthy mouths. It's the trend these days to assasinate the messenger rather than allowing him to deliver his message and accept it as one of many opinions out there that are valid when argued with facts and reasoning. There are still many of us who agree with you, and some who disagree, but are civil, kind, and thoughtful.

  • Al Hooper

    This is right on. As a movie lover I feel betrayed by the current crop of filmmakers. Yes, there were bad movies made in the 1930s and '40s, but even the bad ones were made with some integrity. Today it's all lights and whistles or else ugly spectacles ("The Godfather" was a good example) that glorify psychopathic violence and sadism. Some "entertainment"! These days I spend more time with my books than ever before. That's the good news.

  • Anonymous.

    Let me get this straight: you're saying that there aren't any good movies of recent vintage? Films from the 30's and 40's are the only ones that are worth watching?

    Uh-huh...

    Two points: (ONE) - I also don't much care for extremely violent or graphically gory films. But, ya know what...? They're very easy to avoid. There are countless MODERN choices of every genre that don't feature such crap. And believe it or not, many of them are actually GOOD films.

    (TWO) - GONE WITH THE WIND has only ever been an overblown soap opera. But it's a very well made soap opera. And if you happen to like soap operas, you really can't do much better than GONE WITH THE WIND.

  • chris mattson

    THE MOVIES OF THE 30'S, 40'S, 50'S AND 60'S HAD THE SUPERSTARS, GREAT DIRECTORS AND THE SUPER STUDIOS. TODAY IT SEEMS THAT THE GREAT DIRECTORS ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN(FORD/HITCHCOCK/CUKOR/CURTIZ/WILDER/HUSTON/CAPRA/ETC. ETC) VS SPIELBERG AND ?, AND THE SUPERSTARS OF TODAY ARE LACKING APPEAL THAT THE STUDIOS WORKED HARD TO MANUFACTURE AND PROMOTE. THE SUPER STUDIOS WERE GOOD FOR FANS AND QUALITY MOVIES AND THE STARS THEY DEVELOPED AND PRODUCED.

  • Jhong Dhu

    All movies are essentially crap
    The crap must fertilize the viewer's brain
    The soil of the viewer's brain will yield a 'plant'
    The 'plant' can be an ugly weed or a beautiful flower
    There are many different brains with many different soils
    The same crap may produce a weed in one brain and a beautiful flower in another
    Whether the crap is from 90 years ago or from last week does not matter crap remains potent to the soil of the brain
    Each must tend their own garden

  • Wild Bill

    This issue of "old" Hollywood versus "new" Hollywood is not limited to the cinema but is embedded in our current culture (I hesitate to call it "modern" for its connotations of progressiveness). The arts have taken a severe beating with the advancement of at least two generations that adopt the "me" attitude: what I believe to be valid or good art must be foisted upon a public whether that public wants to see it or not. The high crime, I believe, is that there are critics who lavish praise on these indecipherable pieces of idiosyncratic rubbish and fool sycophantic supporters who wish only to be considered "in the know". I have even read that any current music written that is lyrical or melodic cannot be considered classical.

    So it is with cinema. Movies today are made with heavy reliance on computer wizardry. Just read the credits and you will see large sections devoted to special effects or CGI. One of my criteria for considering a movie in the good category is my willingness to see it again and again. That is why my collection leans heavily to those movies made in the '30s, '40s and '50s. It would be more biased except for the unavailability of most of these movies on CD. I have given up on VHS since it is very difficult to find a decent playback machine.

    I have never seen "The Departed", "Hoodlum", "Sideways" or "There Will Be Blood", to name just a few, and I will be happy if I never see them. I have seen "Titanic" and "American Beauty, to name just a few, and I will be happy if I never see them again.

    I will continue to search for copies of "An Apartment for Peggy" or "In Name Only", to name just a few, and I will watch them over and over when I see them on TV. Meanwhile, I will listen to Bach, Verdi and Puccini instead of Britten and Cage. I will admire Rembrandt, Durer, Escher or Rockwell and avoid anything with four dots of color that calls itself art. I will read Dickens, Browning, Hesse or Mann instead of current authors that seem to bang out books once a year.

    Classic to me means that a piece of art has withstood the test of time. In twenty years, who will remember the Transformer trilogy or "Dumb and Dumber"? At least, I hope not.

  • Barbara Atkinson

    Many outstanding comments/thoughts here.... My additions:
    1. I feel deeply sorry for today's certainly vastly talented young actors and actresses, who apparently have no decent material to perform. Their talents will stay mostly hidden and unappreciated, as viewers such as myself will refuse to watch garbage strewn with profanity, promiscuity, unnecessary violence, overblown special affects intended to shock, and "stories" without character development. If it's rated "R" or worse, I will not go.
    2. Having been an ardent student and busy professional earlier in life, I missed growing up in the movie world, as many of my peers enjoyed. Thus, not long ago, decided that I should finally see what "Saturday Night Fever" was all about, remembering well the hoop-la over the dancing. Well, I saw it. I'm sorry I did. Disgusting and not a single character in the whole thing that I felt any positive emotion toward. What a waste!
    3. Have set an arbitrary mark for myself: If a movie was made pre-1950, it will likely meet my standards for decency and story-telling. 1950-1960 = approach with some caution. 1960-1970 = Check out with more caution. Later than 1970 = you better know what you're getting into. Yes, some are good. Most are disappointments.

    Question: How can those of us who feel this way have an effect on Hollywood? Surely we are of a sufficient number to generate some profit??? Or what can we do locally to get "classic" films shown on the big screen?? Would LOVE to see the great old films in a real theater! Have only been a relatively small screen TV viewer.

    So glad we have "thinkers" out here....

  • Gary Vidmar

    I think it's only natural as one gets older to wax sentimental, and there is definitely a lot to criticize about in the current evolution of the film industry, but, generally speaking, there is always a degree of talent and craftsmenship, in any era, to give it substance.
    I think great, new-wave directors like John Frankenheimer, Robert Altman, Roman Polanski, Martin Scorcese, David Cronenberg and The Coens - to name a few - do deserve respect and admiration for creating work that is as timeless as that of Ford, Wyler, Hitchcock, Huston, etc. THE GODFATHER can rank with KANE as a brilliant piece of expressive Americana. Eastwood's UNFORGIVEN is as great a Western as Ford's STAGECOACH. And guess what? Marlon Brando's MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY can easily be judged as superior to the Gable-Laughlin version.
    Also, I cannot stop enjoying films like GONE WITH THE WIND, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS and BEN-HUR no matter how ridiculously bourgeois and hokey they were to begin with.

  • Dwight J

    Interesting views.I like old film because the actors were under a restrictions as to what they could do on film so in most cases they needed to be good actors especially the silents.Today we have special effects that can disguise actor lack of talent.It would be interesting to see how some of todays talent would fare in the same restrictions of say 1950.There are good films made today but I think there never will be another"Golden Age"of films again.

  • Tiny Tim

    Preferring one "movement" over another is nothing new. Nevertheless, I find Mr. Coniam's opinion on film about as strange and uncommon as any I've ever encountered. Boiled down to its essence, it uses the techniques of Marxist criticism to praise the most repressive and monopolistic institutions in cinema history. His sole criteria for preferring one film over another is how it is produced. Content and quality are irrelevant. His lament for the collapse of the studios -- "the stars migrate from studio to studio, individual studio styles disappear, real locations, widescreens and other forms of pseudo-realism replace the artistic creations of the old studio photographers and set designers with drab singularity, and uniformity of manner and message gives way to a thousand discordant voices all vying to see who can shout loudest for your dollar" -- is so full of contradictions, generalizations, and naked prejudice as to be ludicrous. Note that "real locations" can only produce the "drab singularity" of "pseudo realism" while the studio shots created by "old studio photographers" and "set designers" are all "artistic creations" whether they be from "Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein" or "The Magnificent Ambersons" (I guess John Ford out in Monument Valley doesn't count). And of course, the studios didn't have to shout nearly so loud for your dollars since they owned the entire production chain from raw materials, to manufacturing, to distribution to exhibition. About the only way to see a movie was to buy a ticket from a theater owned by one of the "Big Five" studios showing their films. As for what constitutes "artistic creation," once upon a time actors in a Greek drama performed behind grotesquely exaggerated masks that conveyed a single emotion, in the 19th century, actors exchanging dialog mostly faced the audience instead of each other to deliver their lines, and early silent movies would occasionally interrupt actors mouthing streams of unintelligible and likely irrelevant words with placards containing a single sentence or phrase meant to covey the meaning of what was probably not actually being said. Drama and cinema have always been highly stylized ways of representing life through action and dialog, but the tone, technique, and content has constantly evolved and changed. Preferences are developed through conditioning and education but shaped by personality. For example, I love films like the great Busby-Berkely productions of the 30s like "42nd Street" in which fantastical musical numbers are part of the naturalistic action of a "pseudo realistic" plot. On the other hand, I despise the musical comedy genre epitomized by 1950s films like "Brigadoon" or "Oklahoma" in which the actors interrupt the naturalistic action and dialog to perform stand-alone musical numbers whose informational content may or may not be perceived by other characters. But that's just my preference for one kind of stylization over another. Still, I would argue that these kinds of genre distinctions are a more useful way to compare movies that their "mode of production." For example, I would say that a Fox studio musical like "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" (1953) has more in common with 2002's "Chicago" than it does with contemporary Fox films from other genres like "Pickup on South Street" (1953) or "Invaders from Mars" (1953). I would also argue that many current-day films can exhibit the same kind of artistic uniformity found in studio films except that it is now directors and not corporations that shape the vision. So a Spielberg or Scorcese or Coppola has the freedom and power to stamp a film in his own mold just as surely as MGM polished its sheen into the finest products of its Golden Age. But let's remember that age has been gone for more years than it existed, and it was nevery so uniform as Coniam would have us believe. There were good and bad films then as now, but as Coniam tells us he doesn't really care about that. Ultimately, it seems Coniam is far less concerned with the films themselves than with his mythical "Hollywood's Golden Age."

  • Jhong Dhu

    So much exposition on insignificant topic
    Fascinating to see how human condition leads one to empty one's mind for others to view
    Very entertaining and instructional
    Thanks to all who contribute

  • M. L. Wirick

    For me, I don't care for most of today'smovies. I have "looked" forward to several, only to be disappointed in them. Most, I admit, were remakes.
    After viewing the remakes, I have realized that there are no good writers left for screenplays. I guess there are no good authors left to write books to base a good solid movie. The "older" ones didn't depend on sex, bad laungeuage or special effects. They depended on good stories, smart characters and great actors.
    I did enjoy the Lord of the Ring trilogy. Titanic, I'll watch, not for the love story, but for the ship itself. Differnt people, different times. I don't listen to todays music either.

  • sb vernon

    The fact remains, that in cultural matters every opinion has some validity. There are old films that are puerile, and new ones so. Watch what you relate to, and don't act as if your words of "criticism" are some kind of gospel. There is so much elitism in art, film, book, painting etc. If a person wants to share his/her opinion fine, but don't think that you are uttering pearls being cast before swine.

  • MissKitty

    In the current environment of the general attention span being that of a cherry-bomb, and constantly wanting to be entertained, it won't change until attitudes change, cinemas are boycotted and the money dries up...'Taste' is subjective - everyone is different, and that's what makes this world so fascinating!

  • Greg

    It's a generational thing. Most people probably prefer films from their youth. It's what we grew up on and what we came to expect. New stuff is sovastly different and older folks seem to say they don't make like they used to. Once you pass the big 40 and even 50 you start to long for what you loved and when you see the new stuff it is so different and really aimed at the younger market.

    Please bring back color films - I'm so tired of watching new films with the color drained out

  • oscarjaffee

    Being a fan of horror films, I am 10 times more entertained by a bad "B" movie from the golden age than I am by today's so-called horror films, which are a waste.

  • BRIAN

    What I think,lets take this step by step,1In the movies2Next thing out on DVD3 you find them at flea markets for a few bucks.

  • Anonymous.

    Mr. Coniam's comments are certainly pretentious, but the logical, bottom line response to them is really very simple: What is wrong with a supposed movie fan who seriously says that he hates, and actually refuses to watch, any post 1950 (or so) American film? Is he truly trying to suggest that there aren't any genuinely good films from the past 50 or 60 years? Of course, Mr. Coniam excludes European films to some degree because, as I already pointed out, pretense is very important to him. In any case, his main point clearly isn't something that can actually be taken seriously. As to "Tiny Tim's" idea that Mr. Coniam may have been trying to make some kind of convoluted Marxist argument (something to do with central control and a uniform visual style), I'm not sure that's quite fair. After all, only a blithering nincompoop would cling to any form of communist ideology in this day and age. In all honesty, I don't perceive any such idiocy in Mr. Coniam's remarks. He has simply adopted a decidedly questionable attitude toward post World War II movies, that's all.

  • Marshall

    Since 2001, the only movie I've seen since then, that I thought was worth watching, was The Forgotten. Every other movie I've seen in the past 10 years since 2001 was mediocre at best. Since the 1950's, I believe the acting has improved, but it's the scripts that are so bad. Just no stories worth spending my time watching and certainly not worth seeing a second time. I believe it's because Hollywood isn't interested in presenting art. They're interested in presenting whatever will get bodies into the movies theatres to sell tickets, buy DVD's, etc, etc. Which means they're catering mainly to teenagers and people in their 20's. If you're above that age group [I'm in my late 50's] then you'll have less and less reason to identify with the product that Hollywood is now turning out. Television has done the same thing over the past 20 years. Where the money goes is where the product goes. Unfortunately.

  • Michael Oldfield

    Wonderful essay and right on the mark. My reasons for not viewing many modern films are:

    They are filled with ugly soulless people. The best example of this was a 1985 action flick called "Runaway Train" with Jon Voight, Eric Roberts and Rebecca DeMornay. Their characters are so lacking in any sort of decent human qualities that you do not care if they live or die. There is nobody to cheer for in most films today. Even the so-called heroes are nasty cold-blooded individuals you would not want to meet.

    Films today are filled with unnecessary swearing. Have you ever seen one film which you consider great because of its liberal use of the f-word? The guys who run Hollywood probably talk this way but many of us don't. Personally, I do not wish to sink to their level and I don't want to hear gutter language in film.

    The television previews of upcoming movies usually tell me that I want nothing to do with them. I am not interested in seeing cars, trucks, planes, buildings, etc. blow up in a huge orange fireball or see people being mowed down with automatic weapons. I want a good story with believable characters that completely captures my imagination for 90 minutes or more.

    So many modern films have no heart or soul and leave you with a "feel-bad" ending.
    People still go to the movies to escape their daily lives. They want to be uplifted. They don't demand that every film be "Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs" but they do want to be inspired to live better lives, to see people overcome obstacles and to have decent human characters on the screen that they can root for.

  • SAChip

    The only director currently working that still impresses me: John Sayles.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Some interesting responses here. Let me clear up a few misconceptions and address again those lingering, hysterical objections…

    John Stanaway –
    The Fog is an example of a film I enjoy in the way that I enjoy modern films. The point of those modern films I listed wasn’t to say that I think there are very few which stand comparison with old films, and here they are. It was to show that while there are some modern films that give me enjoyment, it is at all times a different kind of enjoyment, and so different, in fact, that we should perhaps speak of modern and classical cinema as two things.

    To that extent, then, I disagree with Jim and Duke Ellington. There’s not only two kinds of music, good and bad, or the same two kinds of films. Classical, jazz and pop are fundamentally distinct, with their own unique grammar, though I realise the Duke wasn’t really denying this, but rather making a point about tastes. My contention is that we should start thinking of classical cinema, made under unique production conditions, as something distinct from the broader category of ‘anything that can be projected on a screen’. My own personal opinion is that while there may be good and bad examples of both old and modern, the good outnumbers the bad in the thirties and the bad outnumber the good today. Note that these are two different arguments, one a matter of opinion, the other a matter of classification.

    Anonymous asks: “Let me get this straight: you're saying that there aren't any good movies of recent vintage? Films from the 30's and 40's are the only ones that are worth watching?”
    No, I’m saying I don’t like movies of recent vintage, and it may help to make sense of that if we think of them as intrinsically different from those of the 30s and 40s.

    Jhong Dhu’s two contributions are both foolish in the extreme.

    Will Bill –
    I agree with you entirely, except to say that the dark history of the word ‘progressive’ makes me more than happy to use it pejoratively.

    Barbara Atkinson –
    I sympathise and agree, but there’s no place for us in the current set-up for as long as films are regarded as precisely the single thing I was describing. Only the law of the dollar rules, and that means the teenage/young professional dollar.
    If people refused to distinguish between types of music, the same logic would apply, and only banal pop would be heard on the concert stages and radio. It is precisely because classical music has been freed from the commonality of the wider term ‘music’ that we can listen to classical music channels and visit classical concert houses. Liberate classical cinema in the same way and the same result might follow – there might even be new classical cinema, as there is new classical music: an unimaginable thought, but perhaps only because it does not exist, not because it couldn’t.

    Gary Vidmar: “I think it's only natural as one gets older to wax sentimental”. Quite probably, but that’s not what I’m doing. I’m arguing for sub-classification of types of cinema along non-generic lines, and proposing that my own responses to the two types of cinema underlines the validity of that distinction. It has nothing, really, to do with whether you love The Godfather or I hate it. The only thing that troubles me in your comment is the reference to films being “ridiculously bourgeois”. Why is being bourgeois a bad thing, and how can a film be ridiculously so?

    ‘Tiny Tim’ is welcome to assert that “boiled down to its essence” my opinion “uses the techniques of Marxist criticism to praise the most repressive and monopolistic institutions in cinema history” but I trust few readers will agree. In the first place I was talking about personal response, and how to account for clear and obvious distinctions in personal taste that only make sense if we accept that old Hollywood was unique – not by definition better, or worse, but just so totally and increasingly different that it might be better for all of us if we cut it loose. If you think I’m sure of how fundamentally different they are, try asking a kid coming out of Transformers 74 what he thinks about Fred Astaire movies. I think you’ll find it works both ways.
    “His sole criteria for preferring one film over another is how it is produced. Content and quality are irrelevant.” No, that is my criteria for establishing difference. Nowhere do I say that content and quality are irrelevant, though I do put forward, as my opinion, the suggestion that the conditions of old Hollywood were especially conducive to the creation of content and quality, hence their profusion then and scarcity now. The rest is straw man-bashing, issue-avoiding and uncontested opposition to unadvanced claims, sprinkled with some lively invective that underlines, yet again, the still unaddressed mystery of why liking old films and hating new ones seems to annoy a certain type of person so much. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen the phrase “mythical golden age”. That’s why I want to call it the classical age. Then there’s no value judgements to trouble those clinging to the raft of modern cinema, and they can stop pretending they think it’s mythical.

    SB Vernon counsels: “Watch what you relate to, and don't act as if your words of "criticism" are some kind of gospel. There is so much elitism in art, film, book, painting etc. If a person wants to share his/her opinion fine, but don't think that you are uttering pearls being cast before swine.”
    This rarely follows an opinion the writer agrees with, and again underlines how much certainty of opinion when allied to the rejection of some aspect of current orthodoxy always creates hostility. Interesting but unenlightening.

    Greg –
    I agree with you about colour films! But it’s not really a generation thing with me. I’m 38 and dislike the films of my own generation, and, except for the most part on purely nostalgic grounds, the films of my own childhood.

    Mr Anonymous –
    The really boring comments are always anonymous!
    “Mr. Coniam's comments are certainly pretentious…”
    Are they? Why?
    “What is wrong with a supposed movie fan who seriously says that he hates, and actually refuses to watch, any post 1950 (or so) American film?”
    I don’t know. If I find one I’ll ask him. I, on the other hand, was saying that I find post-studio system movies to be fundamentally different from what went before, and happen to prefer what went before. I patently do not refuse to watch anything else. I just don’t enjoy it as much, and it affects me – even when I do enjoy it – in a different way.
    “Is he truly trying to suggest that there aren't any genuinely good films from the past 50 or 60 years?”
    Nope, but thanks for asking.
    “Of course, Mr. Coniam excludes European films to some degree because, as I already pointed out, pretense is very important to him.”
    No, I do so because they, too, are made under conditions sufficiently distinct to make the product almost generically identifiable, and with their relative disinterest in special effects and juvenile spectacle and outrage, I tend to find them, pound for pound, more enjoyable.
    “In any case, his main point clearly isn't something that can actually be taken seriously.”
    Go on, give it a try. We might start having some sort of discussion then, instead of just insulting each other.
    By the way, I don’t think ‘Tiny Tim’ was actually calling me a Marxist or suggesting that I was advancing a Marxist argument, merely that I was developing my arguments using the tools of Marxist dialectical criticism.

    Thanks for all your stimulating comments. If I haven’t singled you out, that’s because I agree!

  • Shawn

    Although I do like other genres of films the Golden Age is fave by far in film. And I ain't old either. It's difficult to even talk to people about them to others sometimes but I've managed to make a few fans of 30's films by giving them as gifts e.g., 'Twentieth Century' 1934, 'Ruggles of Red Gap' 1935, 30's Karloff/Lugosi and yes, 'The Old Dark House'1932. I even got Gloria Stuart's autograph a little before she died at 100 a year ago. I have one friend (a female) who is younger than me and in her mid-20's who shares the same love of old films and sometimes we'll just kick it and watch 'The Thin Man' films or Carole Lombard, Cary Grant, Charles Laughton or Barbara Stanwyck films. Actors that I find infinitely more interesting or fascinating than any of their peers of today. I like the Irene Ware mention. I too have aquired films of the beautiful actress just because she was in them. One of little quirks an old film buff will have like my pre-code Loretta Young films, Leila Hyams' films or my complete set of the Thelma Todd/Zasu Pitts film shorts. Thanks for the article to remind me we're not quite on the verge of extinction.

  • Matthew Coniam

    You like Gloria Stuart and Karloff and Lugosi, and have collections of Irene Ware, pre-code Loretta Young and the Thelma Todd shorts???
    You're not me writing under an alias, are you?

  • jim

    What a stimulating discussion this has been! (Bizarre contributions notwithstanding...) It is likely that different versions of this dialogue will be taking place in public forums for many years to come, as it becomes clear that commerce and deteriorating popular tastes are leaving classic art forms behind. This includes jazz, blues, classical music, literature, poetry, etc., as well as classic cinema. But in addition to these discussions, it is well past time to circle the wagons and become preservationists, if we really love these things as much as we say we do.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Amen to that!

  • masterofoneinchpunch

    Some random thoughts:

    Shouldn't every movie fan have a collection of Karloff and Lugosi? Of course I think every aficionado of cinema should have Chaplin, Keaton, Fritz Lang, Murnau, Griffith, Orson Welles, Ernst Lubitsch, John Ford, Kurosawa, Jean Renoir, Eisenstein ... as well.

    It certainly can be difficult in trying to persuade older cinema to newer movie fans and of course we should try. I do the same by giving gifts, lending and pushing -- always pushing.

    To a similar note in dealing with Japanese cinema, my favorites tend to be from the 30s to the mid 1960s and analogous to the Hollywood system, the studio/director system prevailed there (up until budgets got slashed, preference to quickies, nudity and overt violence took over -- though I'm not saying good films weren't made). With Kurosawa, Ozu and Mizoguchi you have some of the most sagacious directed cinema in history (not only my opinion).

    In dealing with Hong Kong cinema: The Shaw Brothers were heavily influenced by the combination of Hollywood and Japan and created a variety of genre pictures (though they did more than just wuxia and kung fu) that dominated the region for a period. I feel there is some brilliant cinema from this time period (critics such as David Bordwell also agree).

    But I also like the cinema of today from almost all countries that I view (some trends are problematic like the overuse of shaky cam and bad editing that can be seen almost everywhere). Ultimately I think it comes down to what you are looking for, what you consider art as well as entertainment.

    On a side note I have to wonder why people think Ad Hominem attacks are going to change anybodies opinion?

  • Gord Jackson

    Interesting, fascinating, and I don't know where to start. But start I will, with my demographic, which is post 70 which also means I too have some rather 'fixed' thoughts about 'classical' cinema. But for me, 'classical' cinema is not so much the silents of the 20s and 30s, good though some of them maybe, but lots of films from the forties and even more from the fifties. I like and appreciate some of the realism that started coming into the movies during the fifties. Married couples in single beds just doesn't cut it post Hays office. But that does not mean I'm all for hopping in and out of bed either because I am not. However, what I much prefer today is the less mannered styles of acting we now have. I know Cagney, Tracy, Bogart, Hepburn, Stanwyck, Davis and Crawford were all very good at what they did, but their styles seem so much more mannered than what we have today. Equally adept emoters like Jane Fonda, Vanessa Redgrave, Dame Maggie Smith, Meryl Streep, Anthony Hopkins, George Clooney, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and many others can take their place alongside any of the aforementioned from the classical period. Films like "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie", "Save the Tiger", "Quiz Show", "Letters to Juliet", "Schindler's List", "Goodnight and Good Luck", any of the recent Jane Austen adaptations and again countless others are also, in my view the equal of classical cinema. Of course the titles just mentioned all have one thing in common with classical cinema, they emphasize story, character development and a notable absence of CGI driven violence for its own sake.

    Some have mentioned that there are good and bad films (or music, painting, books etc.) from all eras. And so there are. I would, however, suggest that altho one or two have alluded to them, there are tons of neat little black and white gems amongst the 'b' films of classical cinema. "Armored Car Robbery", "Raw Deal", T-Men", "The Narrow Margin" (1952), "He Walked By Night", "Gun Crazy" (1948), "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (1956 altho the 1981 is pretty good as well), "The Incredible Shrinking Man", "I Was a Teenage Werewolf", and a whole galaxy of 'b' westerns and serials (especially those from Republic Studios) should also be remembered.

    I have no argument with Matthew Conlam and his lack of enthusiasm for today's films. I simply do not across-the-board share it altho I must admit I do share his disinterest in modern music and television. But that's another topic for another day.

  • Shawn

    Yea, if I feel down I can always put on Thelma and Zasu and feel better. Ginger Rogers comedies will always make me feel better also. I'm going to get the new Criterion 'Island of Lost Souls' coming out soon. I love that film. If you give a great 30's film as a gift, you'd be suprised how you could change someones view of old films. Also, I have an actual 1935 publicity photo of Gloria Stuart holding and looking down at her brand new baby girl. I got it on Ebay for $12. It's weird because I hardly ever take pictures and I'm not a picture person at all, but I love photo's of classic actresses. By the way I do like some other genres too; Noir, 50's-70's Samurai(I have all the 'Zatoichi the Blind Swordsman' films with Shintaro Katsu) and Japanese Cult films, Spaghetti Westerns (there's a weirdness about them I love. Filmed in Spain with Italian Directors with Italian, Spanish, other Euro and American actors. The bad guys are more psychopathic too.), and cult horror. But the Golden Age is my favorite and when I see them the actors seem more alive to me than actors alive today.

  • Blair Kramer.

    I said I was done with this subject but something recently happened that relates. But before I get into it I would like to say just one more thing about your essay. I think it's clear that many people are having more than a little difficulty understanding precisely the point you're trying to make. Please allow me to give it one more try... Basically, you don't much care for the attitude of most modern films. The problem isn't any particular story or gentre. What doesn't appeal to you is the manner in which the story is presented. Is that about it? Could it be that you have been turned off by all the cynicism that began to dominate too many screenplays after WW II?

    This just happened... I told a young movie fan that I prefer older romantic comedies to similar films of more recent vintage. I think the great old rom-coms with Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, and Tracy and Hepburn are unsurpassed. The young man essentially said that he thinks such old films are awful! The actors had no real talent, the acting style of that time was ridiculous, the films aren't funny, they're all badly written and directed, and the films simply aren't worth watching! Only relatively recent films are worthy of attention! I thought he was pulling my chain but he insisted that he was serious! Well... I just don't know what to say about such an attitude. And make no mistake about it... Attitude IT IS!

  • Matthew Coniam

    I think it would be truer to say that some people are reluctant to acknowledge the point I am making, and so prefer to argue with the points they want me to be making instead.
    The majority of commenters have expressed no difficulty in comprehending what I am saying at all.

    But once again, basically I am saying two things.

    First, I am making the establishing point that I personally love old movies, specifically but not exclusively those of the 1930s to the point that I could happily watch pretty much anything they made back then. But I dislike later films to the point that I can pretty much count the ones I cherish on my fingers.
    And I have noticed that when I make this point to other film fans, the reaction I often get is a surprising one: hostility. In particular, I am routinely accused of being pretentious, elitist, reactionary and stupid. These claims, I note, are rarely made of those, far more numerous, who say the same thing in reverse.

    Secondly, then, I am trying to explain why this is so.
    The point that is ALWAYS made is: 'films are films, some are good, some are bad, and there are always going to be examples of both.'
    I disagree because I think there is a fundamental difference to which I respond/don't respond, and that is what this essay sets out to define.

    My conclusion is that the difference lies in the unique way old Hollywood movies were made.
    The encounter you describe above is not rare in my experience. I find that most young modern moviegoers, if they have any experience at all of thirties films, take exactly that attitude.
    And I don't think they are being unreasonable any more than I am (though I deplore their tastes and worry about what it means for our culture).

    There IS a clear and obvious difference with old films, and it is not accidental or mysterious, but of the essence and an inevitable result of how they were conceived and made.
    Yes, to some extent it is the absence of cynicism and nihilism, due partly to the robustness of the culture back then and partly to the Hays Code, that I find so invigorating and others, like the young film fan you met, are so panicked by.
    But just as much it is the artificiality of production method and richly theatrical acting, now routinely misunderstood as 'unrealistic' and 'overacting' as if the results were not the aimed for ones, but a failed attempt at simulating realism and naturalism, vastly improved upon by films today. (I find 'realism' boring and 'naturalism' phony.)
    They also laugh at old special effects and what was once thought scary in old horror films, whereas I find old effects charming, CGI hilariously overrated (and the obsessive need for imagination-sparing realism in fantasy subjects a paradox indeed.)
    And if we are so unmoved by the things that terrified our grandparents, surely that is a cause not for derision but some concern...

    Now, as you say, an awful lot of new films turn me off because, because they celebrate destruction, present sadism as entertainment or wallow in glib pessimism.
    But this is not my main point.
    Most modern films don't revolt me in that way in the least, they simply don't interest me very much.
    Film fans often think this is a weird enough stance to demand explanation. I hope now I have given one.

    (More on all this at my site http://www.movietone-news.com if you're interested, especially the posts 'Down with realism!', 'Why I love censorship' and 'Let There Be Light'.)

  • Douglas Solomon

    I like Classic Cinema and I like Modern Cinema. In addition I like Classical Music and Jazz, Rock and Roll, Pop, etc. In other words, I'm not silly enough to close my mind, eyes, and ears, to any entertainment that I may find enjoyable because of any preconceived ideas.
    But, this much I have learned in my time on this Earth. 'The Longer You Hold On To A Wrong-Headed Belief, the More Strongly You Will Defend It.' You, my friend, have presented one of the silliest arguments against post-fifties film that I have ever read. You have just dismissed films such as "Inherit The Wind," "Ben Hur," "Schindler's List" and "The King's Speech" among countless others. That is silly.
    I too, am a collector of vintage silent and sound films. I have literally thousands of films in my collection. More than I can ever watch over again. To say that one era of film is Better than another is silly. You may say you prefer (for whatever reasons) say thirties films to forties films, but to say one is Better than the other is subjective and not based on any reliable proof.
    In other words, you might want to rethink your narrow minded opinions.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Sadly, after so much interesting discussion, this was the silliest response yet. Suffice to say I have done nothing remotely similar to that which you allege.
    I love Ben Hur, hate Inherit The Wind, thought The King's Speech wildly overrated and have never seen Schindler's List.
    What on earth kind of point did you even think you were making?
    My ideas are post-conceived, not preconceived, and you may think them silly if you wish, but if you want to make such a claim at least have the decency to justify it.
    I said from the first that my opinions were just that - subjective. That was the whole point.

  • Douglas Solomon

    Matthew.
    Let me take some of your very quotes:
    "I have a loathing for the supposedly great works of '70s Hollywood - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Godfather, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, that one in space with the laser swords and the little robots, forget the name of it for a minute - that verges on the certifiable. Even films I saw 10 years ago and liked rarely hold up for me once a little water has flowed between us. Titanic, for instance, I initially had pegged as a glorious, old-style tear-jerker: the petty resentments of stuck-up critics who mocked the script and performances, I confidently predicted, would come to look as transparent and silly as those few who tried to write off Gone With the Wind. I was amazed to watch it again recently and see that they were right: it's a terrible film."
    With that gem, you dismissed three decades of film in one fell swoop. And because some people said that "Titanic" (A film you claimed you originally liked) was lousy, you watched it again, and agreed with them! So much for standing behind your opinions.
    And even though you think my opinions are silly, at least I don't close my mind to all of the advances made to the art of filmmaking for the past 40 years. And I do not make blanket statements like, "Yes, everyone knows classical music is better than modern music." Really?
    As for any point you think I was trying to make, it is simple. If you prefer pre-70's films, fine. But to say that post-70's films are terrible is, to put it mildly, ridiculous.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Oh, dear!
    You offer little room for adult discussion and I don't intend extending this much further.
    But the whole point of what I said about seventies movies was that it was purely my opinion, but an opinion which intrigued me because it seemed to not only differ from those of other film fans but to actively alienate them - as we see in typically foam-flecked form in your comments.
    So I decided to see if I could objectively account for my preferences, hence this piece in which I propose an explanation that you have now twice chosen to ignore the substance of.
    Do you then disagree that the industrial and social context of thirties cinema made the product fundamentally different - to the point of being instantly identifiable - and that it would be reasonable to have a taste for that and that only? If so, explain why. If not, why the aggression?
    I rewatched Titanic expecting to adore it as much as I did at the time and was shocked to find I agreed with its critics - I make that clear in the piece too.
    For some reason people are inordinately defensive of their own era, perhaps because so much of their own cultural life is invested in it.
    Malcolm Muggeridge wrote: "nothing enrages people more than to think they have engaged in unprofitable adulation." The truer the observation, the more it rankles. I knew going in that no line was more likely to raise a certain kind of hackle than the one about classical music: this is because it is so totally and inarguably true. ("Really?" Yes, really.)
    Saying the same about films gives both sides a little more room to manouevre, hence the squirming here.
    But don't worry: look around (and listen around) and I think you'll see that your side has won the war where it really counts: on the world's screens and airwaves.
    You can afford to be coolly dismissive of my cranky eccentric views. The passion and invective with which you seek to fell me are as unnecessary as they are telling.

    More sober comments from now on, please!

  • Douglas Solomon

    Matthew:
    Let me start by saying that My era is probably as far back or earlier than yours. I was a child of the forties. I grew up on film of the thirties, forties and fifties. So if your statement was correct, that is the era I would be defending. I also grew up with Jazz, Classical, Pop and Rock, and I love them all. My film and music libraries are sizable, numbering in the thousands.
    The differences in our philosophies, seem to be that you seem to focus on a very small sector of the art and entertainment media available to you. You would seem to be, by the attitude expressed in your article, the type of person that would reject digital media and all of the electronic advances of the last four decades. That is purely conjecture, of course, but that is the vibe you display by dismissing four decades of film history.

    And I do need to revisit your comments about Classical Music being better than all other forms. That is probably the most telling comment you made. Cling to the old, reject the new. That is exactly where you seem to be coming from. You tend to make these kind of blanket statements without any explanation of why one is better than the other. And your narrow focus doesn't help your cause. When one is a follower of every kind of music, the argument about which type is better becomes a moot point, because one sees equal merit in all forms of musical expression. Remember, Classical Music was only the Pop Music of its time. Much of it was great, but there was a lot of filler too. Just like today. Those with the narrow viewpoint end up defending their preferences to the bitter end. I enjoy different types of music to match my mood at the time. I would find a steady diet of only one form of music boring and repetitious.

    I agree with you that you stated these were your opinions, and you are entitled to them. No problem. However, when you print them in a forum, you might expect that some people will take exception and write a rebuttal. I wasn't trying to pick on you personally. I was only trying to point out that in my opinion, based on your article, you have a very narrow minded attitude toward the arts.

  • Matthew Coniam

    You've now said the same thing three times.
    I will repeat my question, word for word, one last time:

    Do you then disagree that the industrial and social context of thirties cinema made the product fundamentally different - to the point of being instantly identifiable - and that it would be reasonable to have a taste for that and that only? If so, explain why.

    There is nothing narrow-minded about liking some things and not others, especially if you are able to explain why.
    The classical music debate, on the other hand, is a non-starter; there's just no argument about it.

  • Rafael

    Great article. I prefer Hollywood's Golden Age and old black and white movies to anything from modern Hollywood today. I hardly watch new movies. Modern movies that I have watched and are pretty decent are from Peter Weir. I am thinking of his most recent movies "The Way Back" and "Master and Commander".

  • Douglas Solomon

    Matthew:
    Nice to see that you are not opinionated. No argument on the Classical Music debate? Really? According to what sources? And please don't use the tired argument that it has been popular for hundreds of years. That is only because most of the other musical forms I mentioned, have not been around that long. And I would venture that much Classical Music does not survive because it really wasn't very good. The good stuff is Classic. The rest, forgotten. So it will be with cinema and the musical forms that followed. Time is the arbitrator in these cases.

    You ask the same question over and over, so I guess I should answer it. No, I do not agree that the industrial and social context of thirties cinema made it instantly identifiable. Black and white cinematography and sound did that. Also directorial style and the fact that most films of that period were more character-driven had more to do with it than your argument suggests. However, many of the recent films you dismiss, are very character-driven. One that I saw recently, "The Help," would fall into that category. Now, if you think that "Gone With The Wind" has the same identifiable characteristics as say, "Randy Rides Again," then I don't know what you are talking about. The only things that make thirties cinema instantly identifiable are inferior sound, predominantly black and white photography and easily detectable special effects. "A" pictures and "B" pictures from any era, do not look the same or have identifiable characteristics.

    And finally, your quote, "There is nothing narrow-minded about liking some things and not others, especially if you are able to explain why." I thoroughly agree. However, that does not explain how you can dismiss up to four decades of filmmaking. You are not talking about liking some individual films more than others, you are dismissing decades of films 'out of hand.' That IS narrow-minded.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Good grief.
    I don't propose to labour the classical music issue because this is a forum, and a post, about films. I didn't say classical music was more popular or more enjoyable than any other kind of music, or that one could not like other kinds of music (as I of course do.) I said it was better. Better as music. Better music. Cleverer, deeper, profounder music. I suspect this rankles because the whole outdated notion of high and low culture rankles. But as I say, it's not what we're here to discuss.

    Handsome of you to concede that you may as well answer the question I keep asking over and over, especially as it's central to the debate we're supposedly having here.
    But you muddy the waters still further when you go from saying that you "do not agree that the industrial and social context of thirties cinema made it instantly identifiable", and then add "Black and white cinematography and sound did that".
    Yep, that'll be that industrial context I was talking about.
    Hard to imagine you arguing that social context is not a main distinguishing factor either - specifically the Hays Code. Perhaps that's why you don't address that half of the matter at all.

    But good to see that we are now disagreeing only about what it is that makes these films uniquely identifiable, not about whether they are uniquely identifiable at all.
    That'll make your answer to the other part of the question - if so, what's wrong or bizarre with liking films with those characteristics and not those without - even more interesting.
    But I'm not holding my breath for it.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Rafael -
    I've not seen either of those, but I have a friend who swears by Master and Commander. Perhaps I'll give it a try.
    The only newer films that have really got under my skin are Gianni di Greogrio's two films, Salt of Life and especially Mid-August Lunch, and Ghost World. If you've seen the latter you'll probably know why I like it so much!

  • Douglas Solomon

    Ok. One last time. I finally get where you are coming from, since you did a very poor job of explaining it in your article.
    Your reference to the Hays Code finally clued me in on your mindset. You don't like the swearing and sexual content of some modern cinema. If you had just come out and said that, instead of talking in code, there would have been no problem. Your reference, Social Context, could mean anything from Prohibition to the Great Depression. Although it doesn't bother most moviegoers, I have known people that are put off by it. And of course, these themes did run in thirties movies, they were just more hidden. Interestingly, there was also drug humor in some thirties films. "Modern Times" comes to mind. And don't forget, Clark Gable did say, "Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn!"

  • Matthew Coniam

    I'm finally calling time on this.
    Each time I explain things more clearly and each time you retreat further into a wilderness of incomprehension.
    Your blinding new Hays-related shaft of insight goes back over ground other commenters raised, and I dealt with, ages back. I'm too weary to explain your latest misunderstandings, and you wouldn't care anyway.
    "Finally clued me in on your mindset"! Good heavens, man! Lend me some of that confidence, would you?
    None of the other commenters thought I was talking in code, or needed half a dozen long and detailed further expositions so they could be finally clued in to my mind set, still getting it wrong even then. Just consider the possibility that there might perhaps be another way of interpreting this situation!

    Gratuitous sniping becomes tiresome too. Oh no! He said I made a very poor job of explaining myself! Straight through the heart!!!

    I also just stumbled across a couple of your other interjections when I was reading a post about Tom Cruise, so I now have a much clearer sense that this is not even something you actually feel strongly about, but that senseless belligerence is simply your preferred mode of address.

    But more than all of that, I'm really starting to get the feeling we're the last two guys at the party. Aren't you? Nobody else is even reading this any more, much less feeling the need to add to it. We're just arguing with each other, in an empty room. I can't speak for you, but there are so many more useful things I could be doing.
    If and when some other people get this debate moving again I may try again, as politely as I can, to suggest the values of humility and actually reading the things you attack.
    But until then, what do say we call it a day now?

  • Douglas Solomon

    Fair enough.

  • Hilary

    I love and collect movies from the 1930's to the 1950's. I'm in my mid twenty's, and have loved old Hollywood since my teens. The movies coming out of Hollywood now are not that great. I enjoy some, but find most pretty boring. Give me Ginger Rogers, Joan Fontaine, Gene Tierny, Hendry Fonda, or Cary Grant anyday!

  • Blair Kramer.

    OK then, please allow me to rejoin the party. Wouldn't you agree Mr. Coniam, that a good number of people had more than a little difficulty grasping your precise point? They certainly can't be stupid. It's because, unlike yourself, most movie goers simply don't think of films in terms of "eras." They don't believe that the movies of one specific decade are necessarily better (or worse) than the movies of any other decade. Certainly not as a whole. For most SERIOUS movie goers it's a simple matter of one movie at a time. Is that movie good? Is that movie bad? Is that movie worth watching? The year a film was released is (or at least, should be) irrelevant. Basically, it's no more complicated than that. And after all is said and done, that really is the one and only logical way of looking at it. Evaluating (in any way, shape, manner, or form) any number of films by lumping them together (in any way, shape, manner, or form) is essentially unfair to each individual film. Like a human being, each film is separate and distinct. As such, they should all be judged on their own unique merits. Any other evaluation would be unfair and most certainly incorrect.

    By the way, you're absolutely right about James Cameron's "Titanic." It's silly propaganda masquerading as social commentary. The evil, murderous bad guy is a wealthy, handsome, socialite, while the virtuous good guy is a short, poverty stricken, street bum! Basically it took the real world and stood it on its head! Can you say: cliche' ridden melodrama?! I knew that you could! But to tell you the truth, "Avatar," Cameron's most recent film, is actually worse! MUCH worse! It indulges in every stupid anti-corporate, anti-military, anti-expansion, late 60's/early 70's movie cliche' under the Sun! I could elaborate but I'm sure you undertstand my point. "Unobtainium" indeed! And what's worse, far too many people actually take that God-awful film seriously! I hate bald faced propaganda like "Avatar," especially when it's dumber than a dead insect!

  • Matthew Coniam

    Well, yes, I agree with your suppositions, we only part company when you start to draw conclusions.
    Most people do approach movies in the way that you describe, and do feel, as you do, that it is the only logical way.
    The purpose of this piece was to say that I, however, do not, and I think I know why, and I am intrigued by the fact that it seems to raise hostility.
    In other words, most of the negative comments are not advancing the issues I am raising, but merely repeating the standard responses I began the piece by listing. I could have stopped at the first few paragraphs and we could have had exactly the same debate.

    Incidentally, I didn't ignore your previous comment but posted a long reply which addressed, among other points, the reference to whether people are having difficulty grasping my point. (As I said in it, no, I think they are reluctant to acknowledge it, rather, preferring instead to paint me as whatever straw man they find easiest to attack - see interminable correspondence above.)
    Unfortunately, presumably because I included a backlink, the comment is 'awaiting moderation' and now has been for three days. Most frustrating, as I can see it every time I come here. But I didn't want you to think I just ignored you. Who knows, maybe it will appear at some point.

    Obviously I agree with you about Titanic, and avoided Avatar in anticipation of the kind of things you say. But I can't believe you truly are unable to see - not agree with me, just see that it might be reasonable - for someone to say: film is a product of its age. The faults of Titanic you identify, and with which I completely agree, coupled with its lousy script and born-to-date effects, are in some way typical of a certain way of doing things at that time. Not every film from the same era may share those faults, neither need it for the basic point to stand.
    I'm simply saying that I particularly like the things that make 30s films quintessentially 30s films, and though I am interested in all film in a general sense, this is where my real passion lies.
    And then I'm saying: I think the reason I respond so strongly to the quintessential features of this era is that a combination of factors relevant to their production context made them truly unique. In other words, though most decades of American film are easily identifiable - I've yet to hear anyone seriously claim this is not the case - for all sorts of reasons varying from photographic style and quality, film stock and hair style to fundamental underlying attitudes, music and on and on, the films of the 30s seem the most heremetically sealed of all decades.
    You could, of course, hate the results of this process. I happen to love it. But it's different is all I'm saying, and I do not, therefore, consider myself irrational for drawing the distinction.
    The secondary point - that doing so for some reason creates anger - has been amply demonstrated here, but still not addressed or accounted for.

  • Matthew Coniam

    Hilary -
    I too find most modern films boring, but I also think of them as something different, more like television I guess, more like the difference between painting and photography. There are photographs I like and photographs I don't like, but photography as a whole does not interest, move, and impress me in the way that painting does. That doesn't mean there aren't bad paintings either! It's just a reflection of where my interest lies.
    The films and stars you mention are paintings to me; I completely agree with you.

  • CheriLynn

    Mr. Matthew (as we say as a term of endearment in the South),

    Some people have difficulty conceding your intelligent point because they have to be right, they have to have the last word, they have to beat down with invective the person they disagree with. I adore Malcolm Muggeridge, and his quote was right on. It sort of reminds me of that silly fluff movie Morning Glory where Diane Keaton and Harrison Ford must say the final Goodbye as they are signing off the show. People tie up their egos with their opinions so tightly they find it difficult to accept anyone who may have a differing opinion from theirs. Just look at the political landscape today. It's brutal out there, and just downright mean spirited. Some are calling for the execution of those who disagree with them politically. "Off with their heads!" Ouch!

    Yes, we got the point out here to all those who have disagreed with you. And we got their point as well, however shamelessly mean or political it was. Whatever happened to the concept of freedome of speech?

    It's as different a time period of film as the piano is from the clavichord (or is it Klavichord?), or even the organ. The sound is different, the look is different, the way of playing it is different, and it brings an entirely different effect to an orchestral sound. To separate that era of filmmaking, to see it as something different from the way they make films today was really a good idea. Bette Davis got it. So did Sir Olivier (or is it Lord Olivier?) The Actors weren't trying to please each other, but working to please the audience. I like that.

    Perhaps the Transformer youth of today are pleased with the quick camera work of Michael Bay and the CGI effects, but they give me a headache and make me dizzy. As nice as an E-Reader is, I still like to study and read books. An E-Reader has its place, just as some movies today have theirs. However, there is something fundamentally different about that period of filmmaking. We can argue if it was the Hays Office, or the Studio system, or even us. Whatever it was, the actors, the character actors, the music, the scripts, the directing, the timing, the black and white of the film all worked together to help us transcend time, our lives, our hearts, and minds. There is something elemental in the way those movies affected us all, and not just because we grew up watching them, but because of the way they were made.

    Leaving acting ability out, compare The Razor's Edge of Tyrone Power to the Bill Murray copy. There is an unbelievable edge to the copy, a cynicism that creeps out, where the Tyrone Power original made me believe he had tapped into a source that not only changed him, it affected me as well. He made me believe I could tap into the same source. How many movies today, however melodramatic the film may be, can make that claim? That may be the fundamental reason why people who love those old movies prefer seeing Bogie over a skinny Angelina Jolie unbelievably kick some muscular guy's butt (which would never happen in real life). Suspension of disbelief is easier for us with Claude Rains than the manic Shia LaBoeuf (sp?).

    Perhaps you can make your case to the filmmakers' schools or the university system over the general public, but, that said, I agree with your idea. Maybe to take it a bit further, we can separate out the films of 1939 over the others. Have one class for the pre 1960 films, and one just for 1939. That would be interesting. What do you think, Mr. Matthew?

  • Matthew Coniam

    Thanks for your kind words and interesting comments.
    Yes - let's call the films of the Studio System something - anything - and start thinking of them as a thing apart. I proposed 'classical' as opposed to 'classic' and that didn't work - people just started making all the usual assumptions about it being a qualitative distinction that I had so laboured to avoid!
    I don't mind adversarial debate, I just wish they'd read what I'm actually saying first!

    Thanks again.

  • Mika

    Special effects and CGI are now more important than story content in most of the current films. This is why I prefer the films of early Hollywood. Also stars were recognizable then - Bette Davis, Cary Grant, Bogart, etc. Now I can barely tell one female star from the next with all the plastic surgery!
    I do like One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest though!

  • masterofoneinchpunch

    Matthew have you read: The Classical Hollywood Cinema by David Bordwell, Janet Staiger, Kristin Thompson? They actually term what you mention above (cutting the date to 1960). This is being used in many film courses. I'm a fan of Bordwell.

    "Thus to see Hollywood filmmaking from 1917-1960 as a unified mode of film practice is to argue for a coherent system whereby aesthetic norms and the mode of film production reinforced one another. This argument is the basis of this book."

  • Matthew Coniam

    Why yes, now you say it I do remember that: I read that when I misguidedly undertook a film studies course many, many moons ago. I'd totally forgotten.
    With both of us behind it it's bound to catch on!

  • Tom

    Modern movies are terrible.
    Violence, pyrotechnics, computer-enhanced Super Hero's.
    Terrible!
    Hollywood wouldn't know a "story" or an "actor" if it was staring them in the face.

    Oops!... I guess it wouldn't "sell".

  • Annie

    I, too, find the language, violence, and the sex in current movies too much. Another thing that bothers me are the costumes. They are not pleasing to my eyes and are often a distraction. Ugly and depressing seem to be the norm now. Some entertainment!

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